Tuesday, May 11, 2010
Lincoln's decisions
After our discussion in class, your textbook readings, or further research, post three comments on the following prompt... Argue for/against: Abraham Lincoln's status as one of the greatest Presidents is undermined by his attacks on civil liberties and other borderline constitutional war policies.
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Throughout our educations, we have been taught that Abraham Lincoln was one of the best presidents the country has ever seen; he was the one who got rid of slavery. As we were taught the story more in depth, it has come out that while Abraham Lincoln had a profound effect on America, some of the actions he took were controversial. This being said, he was still one of the most pro-active presidents that has ever taken office.
ReplyDeleteSometimes, being a good president means doing what is best for the country, despite how it may look to others. Lincoln did make some decisions that could be considered “bending” the Constitution, however he did them out of necessity and well being for the country. Lincoln knew that time was of the essence, and that Congress would make it difficult for him to act quickly, therefore he worked around Congress. Especially when it came to the events at Fort Sumter, Lincoln made a good decision. Under normal circumstances, getting approval from Congress may have been warranted, however with Congress on vacation for a number of months, Lincoln had to make a move: the possibilities of what may happen if he didn’t were far too dangerous. Had Lincoln not waited, and the South provoked the Union more, the outcome could have been even more disastrous, and we would be contemplating over whether he should have. Similarly, had he not put some of the extreme “rebels” such as Merriman in jail, they could have put the capitol as well as many people in great danger.
Out of context, Lincoln’s actions may be controversial, due to their lack of consent on Congress’ part, however in context, you can see that he made the decisions that were best for the country at that time.
I don't think that Abraham Lincoln's status as one of the greatest Presidents is at all undermined by his questionable policies. He simply did what he needed to do in order to try and preserve the Union. He was highly intelligent and made calculated decisions to achieve his goals. At some points, like when Congress was in recess, he was forced to declare war. Without these controversial moves, the Union may very well have lost the war. Lincoln is rightfully one of the greatest Presidents.
ReplyDeleteLincoln is without question one of the greatest presidents the US has had. However, I think that learning more about him and his actions has slightly changed my opinion of him. He is always portrayed almost as a hero because he got rid of slavery even though he made many questionable decisions. Except when making these decisions, his ultimate goal was always to preserve the Union. He first tried to come to terms with the Confederacy peacefully, but after Ft. Sumter, he had no choice but to go to war. Many of his decisions and actionas that he took could be considered unconstitutional such as his suspension of habeas corpus, not going through congress to make the decisions and raising an army. Even though his decisions can be considered unconstitutional, given the situation at hand, he made the most practical and appropriate decisions.
ReplyDeleteAbraham Lincoln is a hero because he was willing to take major risks in order to fulfill what was best for the nation. So what if he bended the Constitution. It needed to be done, and he did it with good and well-thought out intentions. Yes, we did learn back in elementary and even middle school that Abraham Lincoln was responsible for freeing the slaves and now in high school we are learning the "unfortunate" truth, but a seven year old wouldn't be able to mentally understand what had actually happened in the Civil War. Plus, it's not like Lincoln had absolutely nothing to do with ridding slavery. Lincoln is still a hero because he followed his gut, and wasn't phased by what the public viewed him as. He was careful, and made sure his words wouldn't confuse anyone, and calculated every decision he made. His goal was to preserve the Union, and he did what he felt it took to do so, and clearly it worked.
ReplyDeleteIf a different president was in office, who knows what our country would have gone through, and what position it would be in now. We may have had a president like Buchanan who wasn't going to do anything, and just let the country fall apart, or we could have had a president like Douglas who was more concerned with Illinois and his own power than the condition of the nation. America was lucky that Lincoln got into office, but also took action. If he had waited for Congress, who knows how long it would have taken for war to officially be mandated, and who knows how many more events reflecting Bleeding Kansas and Harper's Ferry would have occurred between civilians. Lincoln did what was appropriate, and in the state of an "emergency," making his risky decisions okay.
ReplyDeleteMany view Lincoln's actions as unconstitutional, but in reality he was just doing what needed to be done. This does not diminish his legacy as a great president, but rather it elevates it. Lincoln knew that some of his actions, such as starting war without Congress's consent, would not be received well by the populous. But he knew it had to be done. Any other president might have been swayed by public opinion and waited for the congressional vacation to end before taking action. This would have only caused more problems for the attack at Fort Sumter required an immediate response. All of Lincoln's actions were designed to preserve the Union, not please the public. While some of them can be considered unconstitutional, he was merely doing what needed to be done to preserve the Union. In an extreme situation such as the start of a Civil War, extreme action needed to be taken. Lincoln was not afraid to take this action, no matter how it was received, and was thus a great president.
ReplyDeleteSarah makes a good point about Lincoln's decision to jail Merriman and other rebels. Had he chosen not to do so, these rebels could have posed serious threats to the Union. Many of these people were thrown in jail without charges of trial, which some viewed as unconstitutional. This is certainly a valid point of view, but when looking at the big picture it becomes evident that Lincoln was doing what needed to be done. If he wanted to preserve the Union, he could not risk wasting time with trials. He wanted to eradicate any potential threat to the Union and thus threw anyone in jail who he heard was posing a danger. While this was not fair to those who were not actual threats, it did manage to quell some rebels and preserve the Union.
ReplyDeleteWhen we were younger we were always taught that Lincoln was one of the greatest presidents ever because he ended slavery in America and his leadership during the civil war. Although Lincoln took actions that could be seen as unconstitutional, he was simply taking actions to win a war and preserve the Union. This is also true in other wars in our nations history. In most wars the constitution is bent to give our side the upper hand against the enemy. That is all Lincoln was trying to do, get an upper hand over the confederacy, just like our nation does in almost every war.
ReplyDeleteDana made a good point when she commented on need to pt the rebels like Merriman in jail without trial, and how he couldn't waste time holding a trial for every single "rebel" or anyone else deemed to be dangerous. They were all set free after a few months anyway, and Lincoln was simply doing what would keep the nation safe, and work to piece it back together again effectively. Also, the fact that Lincoln didn't target Southerners, and arrested people from all over, reflects on his determination to preserve the Union, and how he was very fair among everyone.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jimmy Campbell that Lincoln was not the only President who bent the rules in order to gain the upper hand against the enemy. Winston Churchill of Great Britain summed this up when he said that history is determined by the victors of war. It is the end that matters, not the means. Lincoln wanted to defeat the Confederacy and preserve the Union, and made calculated decisions so that the Union would be the victor. It doesn't really matter all that much that he suspended habeas corpus or declared war without Congress's consent as much as winning the Civil War.
ReplyDeletePeople who lived during the antebellum and Civil War era had different feelings for Lincoln compared to people in today's society. That is because at the time, his actions seemed to be equivalent to those of a chaotic tyrant; he did make some unconstitutional moves. However, those people are not around to see the effects of Lincoln's decisions.
ReplyDeleteLincoln's title as the greatest president is not undermined by his actions. With great power, comes great responsibility and Lincoln exhibited his responsibility by making difficult decisions. Overturning habeas corpus was critical because if he had not done so, Taney could have hindered his goals. Also, under Lincoln, slavery ended. That is one of the biggest advancement in the history of America. No other president came close to that feat. His attacks on civil rights and constitutional ideals helped him gain fame.
On a side note, he also won his election despite his name missing from a majority of the southern states. Seriously, what other president could have pulled that off?
I like how Justin mentions that history is written by the victors. Lincoln did not let the opinions of others tamper with his decisions. The focus and determination exhibited by Lincoln portrays his want to win the war. Two major consequences for not winning would have been the preservation of slavery, and his eviction from the white house. Lincoln knew that if the Union lost, any hopes at fixing relations between the north and south would have been gone as well. His actions were done in the idea of mending the nation, not for his own amusement.
ReplyDeleteSarah and Jimmy makes a good point in saying that Lincoln was not the only president who "bended" the Constitution. Lincoln however set the precedent that it is okay for presidents to bend the constitution in times of need. I think that since he won the civil war and takes the credit for getting rid of slavery makes up for it.
ReplyDeleteAbraham Lincoln’s actions although were controversial does not take away from him being one of the best presidents. He had to take these risks to try and save the Union, as history shows it paid off. When he “bended” the Constitution it was necessary for the sake of the Union. In the case of Fort Sumter Lincoln made the right choice declaring war without Congress approval because he knew that it would have been a road block on the road to a recovered United States to wait for Congress to come back from vacation. Also the action of suspending habeas corpus was necessary to put down anti Civil War outbreaks and helped the war along faster because the Union could just capture its enemies and not waste time. All these actions and others that Lincoln had to perform during this era were essential to the well being of the United States. Abraham Lincoln embodies a leader who is willing to give up his popularity for the good of their nation.
ReplyDeleteI, along with many others in our class, believe that Lincoln was a great President, and he was definitely surrounded by controversy because of the actions that he took.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the US government has been founded through a system of Checks-and-Balances, ones which we still practice through our Federal Government, our Local and State Governments, as well as our National gov't and Court system, atleast that's what we try to do.
Lincoln having controversy surrounding him, only made his "less controversial actions" much more effective, because they had positive outcomes, though some continued to demote his views, this does not change the fact that he was able to take leaps in the US gov't that allowed them to reach the point in history which we are in today.
I agree with Dana in her saying that although his actions were controversial they elevated his performance as a president. Lincoln was one of those leaders who knew what was best for this country before anyone else knew so he had people trying to hold him back along the way but he prevailed. This kind of unselfish of acts of not “playing politics” and being above it all makes Lincoln on the top of the best president/leader list of all time.
ReplyDeleteAlex makes a good point about our government being based off of a system of checks and balances. As this is what our country was essentially built off of, many were concerned when Lincoln's actions contradicted this ideal. This caused them to go against what he was doing and view his decisions as unconstitutional. While his actions certainly did go against the idea of checks and balances (for he was simply charting his own course of action without consulting Congress) they were not altogether unconstitutional because of their advantageous long-term effects.
ReplyDeleteAlex's statement about how Lincoln's controversial actions were effective due to beneficial results. However, it is important to realize that this acknowledgment of his actions was not understood at first. Only after Lincoln had passed away, did people begin to see how important of a president he was. It is a shame that people did not realize the gravity of his responses to the Civil war earlier.
ReplyDeleteSince I finally found out this blog assignment was put up (I wasn't there all through AP week and nobody told me about it until now...), I can now say that Lincoln, despite some of his more controversial policies and decisions, remains in my opinion still one of our greatest presidents of all time. If he hadn't taken the risks he made, people might've remembered him as the man who let the union split. Dangerous times call for dangerous decisions, and he did not shy away from making the ones he felt best for our country. He risked his public image to do his job properly.
ReplyDeleteSome people, like Dana and Chris, are pointing out that at the time of Lincoln's decisions, they didn't have the benefit of seeing how everything would work out, making it understandable why they'd panic after some of the things he did (would you be calm if your president suspended habeas corpus?). But, of course, that was the risk Lincoln took in this state of confusion. I wonder how many years it took until historians could look back on his presidency through the Civil War, examine the effects of his decisions, see how much good and how little bad resulted from it, and say, "You know, I think Lincoln's presidency turned how great."
ReplyDeleteAt the same time, though, just because Lincoln made it work when he overstepped the Constitution's boundaries, I think his success doing so made it too justifiable to other presidents believing if they bent the rules, they could do better as well. That's dangerous and reckless (like Alex said, our government is meant for checks and balances), and not every president is going to be as brilliant as Lincoln. In the short-term, Lincoln's actions paid off, but in the long-run his ability to leap past restrictions may have some responsibility in today's public perception of a president's power being so much greater than it theoretically should be.
Lincoln’s attacks on civil liberties and other borderline constitutional war policies did not undermine his status as President but rather made him a legacy in American history. In the 21st century, Lincoln is still considered one of the greatest presidents of all time and highly respected as his journey through his presidency is taught in all classrooms. Lincoln took many chances by not abiding by the Constitution and making decisions without Congress in session but he did it for the well-being of the nation. He put aside all his fear and did what he thought was necessary, which I think so many of our leader’s today lack. Everyone is so caught up in public opinion and their own image that our country often comes second. Most presidents would not have the courage to start war without Congressional consent but Lincoln did whatever it took to preserve the Union. He took risks instead of watching the country slowly wither away, and showed he was not all talk. Even though Lincoln was not favorable at the time, looking back at all his accomplishments and his time in office it can be observed that no one could have done a better job.
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ReplyDeleteI really agree with Scott's comment in his first post, I think everyone should take note of that.
ReplyDeleteLincoln "risked his public image to do his job properly."
That line right there describes Lincoln more accurately than any other comment. It definitely makes him stand out as a President and the fact that he was smart enough and strong enough to take decisive action outside of his comfort zone, or the comfort zone that other Presidents chose to stay within.
I feel that President Lincoln did every thing that was possible of doing to help America. He made a lot of tough decisions that caused a lot of controversy but it was all for the better. When Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, many democrats thought he was acting as a tyrant and that he may become a dictator. Lincoln though handled his issues very well and he never showed signs of becoming a tyrant. Democrats at the time believed that Lincoln suppressed civil liberties. In reality though, Lincoln was acting in a way to protect the public.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Lincoln was an excellent President. Even though he took some risks that were controversial, all of Lincoln's decisions as president were calculated and well thought out. As a president, many of the things Lincoln did attacked civil liberties, and were borderline unconstitutional, which made many people doubt his policies as president. He took action without congressional approval, and made other risky choices, however everything he did he did for a reason. If Lincoln waited to start the war until congress was back in session, it would have been too late. Even though Lincoln took a huge step and risked public dissatisfaction, he knew that his actions were mandatory if he wanted to preserve the union and save the nation.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I’d like to argue against it for the heck of it, it is too hard because although Lincoln might have broken a few laws and violated the Constitution, who knows where our nation would be if he hadn’t had the guts to do so. As almost everyone has pointed out, when a nation is at war, the government has to conduct itself differently in order to preserve itself and also protect the safety of the citizens within. Lincoln’s responses to the variety of situations, such as suspending habeas corpus, fall adequately within the boundaries of what is necessary in war. The true way to justify Lincoln’s decisions is to compare how the war would have proceeded had he not done it. If Lincoln did not suppress the opposition, it would have most likely grown and eventually forced the North to declare peace, either through pressure or by voting Lincoln out of office. If the North then did sign peace, the two nations would have been much weaker than before and effectively prevent the United States from becoming a superpower. Moreover, it is unlikely that the bad sentiments would have ended there which would have just opened up future conflicts with more loss of life. Therefore, using hindsight, Lincoln’s actions were justified in preserving the union.
ReplyDeleteThe ends justifies the means. Although people might have been outraged at the time it occured, Lincoln's disregard for individual rights and the Constitution was completely necessary. In the horrible times of the Civil war, desperate times called for desperate measures. Lincoln must still be considered great because he saved alot of time and lives by not playing by the rules. His willingness to take risks and soil his own reputation for the good of the nation was extremely heroic. He worked hard to be viewed as a neutral president that wanted equality, and but most importantly unity. He bended the Constitution with good intentions and it all paid off when the war finally ended. Putting the nation before himself at all times, Lincoln did whatever it took to achieve unity. He did the things that no one else was really willing to do and had one of the greatest impacts on our country. Without Lincoln, America certainly would not be the same
ReplyDeleteI think these violations of civil liberties might've made a difference in his reputation if Lincoln had utilized them more than he had. He did throw a lot of his opposition into prison with the suspension of habeas corpus, but it wasn't used extensively, only to stop his detractors from interfering with his plans; I don't think it came anywhere close to interring all the Japanese into concentration camps during World War II, in terms of controversial ethics or abuse of power. For Lincoln, it was more a political move, like a filibuster.
ReplyDeleteScott brings up a very interesting point when stating how Lincoln’s bold actions and misuse of power really helped our nation at the time but may have had some negative long-term effects. Many of the decisions Lincoln made were very bold and completely bent the rules. Declaring war without Congress was something unheard of and therefore a very risky move. Once Lincoln did this though, it broke the ice and made future presidents less and less weary of doing things that they would not originally do. As more and more president’s took their power to a whole other level it became more and more accepted and therefore the public unrest Lincoln faced would diminish. As presidents become more and more comfortable with overstepping power, it may lead to disaster. Even today, many believe some people take advantage of their power and a stricter system needs to be in place. If this pattern continues, where is the point in which we say enough is enough?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Carly when saying that an important quality of Lincoln was that he was not bothered by public opinion and did what needed to be done. Lincoln set a goal before the Civil War even begun and carried it on all throughout the war. When your country is in the middle of such a huge conflict and is suffering greatly, I do not believe it matters how you get to through it, as long as you do. It is ironic how the public was so concerned and worried about the decisions Lincoln was making but really these decisions helped end the war and win it for the Union.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Lincoln made decisions that were quite questionable, he executed them with the right reasons behind them. Many people believed that he often acted unconstitutional, but in reality, he was just doing what he saw fit for the country and for the nation to overall recover from this detrimental civil war. He took actions into his own hands after Fort Sumter (borrowed money, blockaded the coast, and raised an army) while managing the south’s rebellious behavior as he had addressed in his first inaugural address. Therefore, his reputation wasn’t too badly destroyed because he ultimately strengthened the Union. In addition, his actions/decisions made were justifiable due to the fact that he was executing on behalf of the nation’s best interest. Even though his borderline constitutional policies were controversial (such as the suspension of habeas corpus and the arrests of thousands of people), the war was eventually won by the Union and he was at last successful in strengthening the nation.
ReplyDeleteI liked how Scott commented on how Lincoln risked his public image to do his job properly. I completely agree with this statement because this was in fact true. His decisions weren’t so much concerned with popular vote (what the public wanted), but rather they were executed with the idea of ending the war and obtaining peace in mind. Therefore, many people didn’t understand how advantageous his actions actually were at first. However, after the war was over, the public began to realize how great of a president he was in taking those risks for our country rather than just following public opinion.
ReplyDeleteLincoln's status wasn't undermined by his actions. Though he did suspend habeas corpus and utilize martial law and initiate a naval blockade and take action while Congress wasn't even in session, he did so with the intent to keep the nation together. He used his power as president, which was something the people weren't expecting, and so they didn't react well to his actions. The fact that Lincoln used his power made him a strong president, and the fact that he used it without abusing it in any way made him a revered president. Others may have utilized his actions in order to gain more power, or create conflict, but Lincoln was strategic; he only made drastic choices when he knew drastic measures needed to be taken. He was tasteful with the amount of power he possessed; he used it for just ends and in the interest of the nation's future rather than in his own interest.
ReplyDeleteAlex's comment about checks and balances is true, and it shouldn't be made a trend for the president to start laying down extreme measures left and right and calling all the shots like some sort of dictator. But it wasn't as though Lincoln came into office without any sort of conflict; he kinda walked right into the Civil War. Action had to be taken, and fast, to keep the country from falling apart. If he had become president and the state of the nation was in working order, then his actions would've been considered nothing short of ridiculous, but would he have even taken those actions in that case? He had reasons for what he did; it was what the nation required at the time. Somebody needed to get the war over and done with without tearing the nation in two.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Justin's point about "bending" the Constitution for the sake of the Union. The point of the Constitution was to make sure everyone obeyed the same laws and that the well being of the Union was put first. At some times in history, the Constitution is not enough to make sure this happens, which is where Lincoln came in during the Civil War. Lincoln utterly dedicated himself to doing just this, which is what made him one of the greatest presidents of all time. He was honest in his actions ("honest Abe"), and while doing these things never once lied about it. This being said, had he been doing something that he did not feel was to the benefit of the country, he would have tried to cover it up.
ReplyDeleteClaudia's statement that the "ends justify the means" is exactly true in Lincoln's case. Sometimes, actions such as the ones Lincoln took seem questionable at the time, however they were clearly necessary to end the war and keep the states together. During his presidency, Lincoln was not always popular, especially as people grew weary of the war. However once Lincoln was gone, everyone realized how much he helped the nation and how he for all intensive purposes rescued it. Very often, leaders are the ones we blame for all of our problems, simply because we need someone to blame. However by taking the blame and continuing to make decisions that are right for the country, although possibly not popular, these leaders show their dedication.
ReplyDeleteI disagree that Lincoln was undermined by his actions. Lincoln was the Babe Ruth of presidents. Why would all our past histroy classes glorify him if he was undermined. While his actions were considered questionable in the political world. Lincoln did not need to do what was constituitonaly right but what was best for the country and preserving the union. His decision to suspend habeus corpus and declare war without congress in session was all calculated and was done to help north be stable. Lincoln needed to stand up to the confederates and make quick decisive actions. Without Lincoln, who knows where we would be today.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Marco that it's just too hard to argue against Lincoln becasue the decisions he made were for the better of the counry. I also agree with the people that said when there is war, a government can do whatever means possible. The constitution goes pretty much out the window because during a war a country has to do what is right for the counrty. If doing what is right for the country means bending the rules of the constitution then that is fine. Which is why Lincoln arresting many people that wanted to overthorw the Maryland government was neccessary because if the Lincoln lost Maryland he would of had the Union capital surrounded by Confederacy.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Alex’s statement about our government being founded through a system of Checks and Balances. Although this was the idea that our government was based off of, Lincoln’s decisions challenged this initiative. Due to Lincoln’s judgment, many people were apprehensive about whether or not his actions were unconstitutional. I think that even though his decisions at the time were questionable, the ending result made up for his actions. In the long run, Lincoln’s assessment of the situation paid off because not only did the war end quicker, but also his plan for rebuilding the country was in the play for the future.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what many people have said. If Lincoln had not bent the rules the outcome of the war may have been much different. If he had not bent the rules the war may have lasted longer and in turn, cause more death and destruction. By bending the rules Lincoln was speeding up the outcome of the war.
ReplyDeleteDuring the time I am sure Lincolns actions seemed shocking, but looking back now and examining the circumstances that Lincoln and the union was in at the time, the choices he made a very practical.When Lincoln habeas corpus, he knew his reputation may be damaged but he took steps and risks to put the nation first over his political reputation, and those are the characteristics you want in a leader. A person who will put the people before himself.
ReplyDeleteLincoln's borderline constitutional policies and extreme decisions could never undermine his status as one of the greatest president of our nation. Lincoln, while it seemed that he jumped into really extreme choices, the truth was that he was actually very thorough in thinking things through and evaluating the risks and benefits of everything he did. Without the choices lincoln made, there could still be a rift between the north and the south, there could still be issues with slavery. Lincoln ignored popular opinion of him, and took the route that led the country to become more unified. Before the civil war, the country was plural "The United States are...." But after the civil war, and the North and the South became unified again, The United States became singular ("The United States is...") and this was all due to the steps that Lincoln took to end secession, despite going against the constitution.
ReplyDeleteOne statement that really stood out to me was one made by Scott saying that Lincoln "risked his public image to do his job properly". I mentioned something along the same lines, but Scott really said that in a way that truly exemplifies Lincoln's actions as president. He didn't care what people thought of him, he just wanted to do his job, preserve the Union, and re-unite the States.
ReplyDeleteMany people are claiming that Lincoln was the best president ever and Jimmy said he was the "Babe Ruth" of Presidents. I must disagree with that statement. Lincoln is definitively one of the greatest Presidents but he is not that much greater than the other President's to be considered the Babe Ruth of them. Our other great Presidents led this country out of tough times. Washington helped create the country and roughed out the edges out of the new constitution. Roosevelt led our country out of the depression and helped us win WWII. Lincoln was a great president, but putting him so far above the others is a disservice to other presidents we have had.
ReplyDeleteI like what Liz pointed out about Scott's post. I think it is great to acknowledge the personal and political risks Lincoln had to take when he made all these decisions. He could have just acted like McClellan and avoided all confrontation and got our country into an even deeper mess. However, luckily for us, he saw the problems of a split country and therefore had to risk his political career in order to save the nation. This truly shows that he cares for the country and was not trying to overpower himself.
ReplyDeleteThe key to Lincoln being the best president of all time comes in observing the before and after of his presidency. Before, his Union was not just threatened, but shattered. By the end, not only was the Union restored, but also the problem of slavery, which caused tension since the country's founding, was solved. Underlying social tensions exploded under his presidency, and Lincoln responded in a way that kept the Union intact. Since the founding, this was the greatest threat to the United States as the citizens themselves were rebelling. And by the end of his presidency, the civil liberties he suspended were put back into place, so his controversial decisions worked despite moral objections. For this reason his bending of laws does not take away from Lincoln being regarded as the greatest president.
ReplyDeleteA leader has the ability to create laws to govern people, so the laws should not get in their way of effectively governing. Lincoln's bending of laws were to preserve the Union. Suspending Habeas Corpus, for example, Lincoln stated was to preserve all other laws by temporarily ignoring one. Lincoln should be praised for his actions as they were successful, as much as one might be against them on principal. Once the crisis was over, Habeas Corpus went back to being in effect. No liberties were permanently lost. Lincoln did not become a tyrant (at least, not for long), and did not become corrupt and set up a regime or something. He suspended civil liberties to preserve the Union, and once the threat was finished, they were restored. The bending of laws did not have a net loss on America over time.
ReplyDeleteScott's argument that Lincoln went against popular support exemplifies his abilities as a leader. As Marco said, he could have just tried to remain popular like McClellan without going into battle, but he made difficult decisions. And as Claudia said, in this case "the end justified the means" as the means, while initially may seem as the work of a dictator, helped to preserve the Union and were not corrupted to a point where Lincoln's power was used for anything but preserving the Union. Lincoln focused on the future, and was not drastically influenced by the threat of becoming unpopular. He did not act in these cases as a politician, but a leader.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what David is pointing about Marco's statement. Lincoln could easily have stayed down and kept calm and just waited out the War to see how the results would progress, however, that was McClellan's job, sitting around and not doing much.
ReplyDeleteInstead Lincoln gave himself recognition by taking decisive action, something which many realize the value of in current day society, not to criticize Obama and other politicans in any way, but people did not understand how important it was to make choices. I also believe that the choices Lincoln made were not reckless, he had motive behind his actions, and by using the army for example he was able to provide a concrete backbone to the actions which he felt necessary to take.
During Lincoln’s presidency, he chose to enforce laws that were deemed as controversial, such as suspending the writ of habeas corpus and declaring war against the South without congressional approval. We were taught ever since we were younger that President Lincoln was one of the greatest leaders of American history. However, people who were actually there to live under President Lincoln’s administration felt that Lincoln wasn’t such a great president because of his controversial actions. In fact, many people attacked Lincoln and called him a tyrant for abusing his powers as president. Nonetheless, his actions were justified in that he only bended the laws of the Constitution in order to make sure that the unity of the nation stayed intact.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Carly stated in that we are really lucky to have had a president like Lincoln to run our country during such situations like the Civil War. Inevitably, it must have been hard for the public to try to understand Lincoln’s scheme in taking away the rights of citizens and enforcing actions without congressional approval. But if Lincoln had not foreseen the possible tragedies that might have occurred without such actions, the fate of keeping the unity of the United States could have been at a much higher risk.
ReplyDeleteAs many people already stated, I also think that it was very honorable that Lincoln gave up his chances of being a popular president at the time in order to fulfill his main goal of unifying the country. As Marco stated, Lincoln did not have to confront all of the problems. He could have easily avoided the issue of war and split the country into two. However, he clearly understood that “a house divided cannot stand,” and made sure that his main goal must be to unify the country by whatever means possible.
ReplyDeleteThough Lincoln’s status as one of the greatest Presidents remains evident throughout history, his reputation as a great president was not undermined by his attacks on civil liberties and other borderline constitutional war policies but rather they supported his greatness. Lincoln’s decisions to attack civil liberties may have been unconstitutional to many but they were just what needed to be done at that time to save the Union from falling apart to a greater degree. He showed that he could take action and do more for the Union more so than any President before him. He also helped present the idea that these war policies that he was attacking were not because he felt like he had the ability to and wanted to show how much power he had but rather that he could do what was best for the Union in time of need.
ReplyDeleteDana made a good point that Lincoln’s actions were not to please the public. Though Lincoln often spoke carefully, he was never trying to please one side over the other. He was simply trying to stay between the lines without crossing over. He showed the Union what needed to be done and whether or not it was unconstitutional is up to people to decide but for many, Lincoln’s actions were not for the population to approve of, they were for the results and consequences that would be later achieved.
ReplyDeleteClaudia also made a good point with “the ends justify the means” meaning that people like Lincoln were allowed to do whatever they wanted as long as the results were favorable. Lincoln did just exactly that by showing the public that he could do what was best for the nation, but it wouldn’t necessarily be the choice of action for the public. It was more like Lincoln was taking in his oppositions opinions and comments and totally tuning them out because it wasn’t how they felt but how he felt in the end.
ReplyDeleteAt the time, Lincoln's actions were extremely controversial because he seemed to test the boundaries of the Constitution. Lincoln was a smart man, and he was able to see further than everyone else could. Lincoln was not very popular because the common people did not understand at the time that his actions were necessary for him to enforce the law. The idea was to break one law so that he could enforce all the other ones. Lincoln may have seemed to be a dictator because he avoided congress approval as much as possible, but he really wanted the best for the country. And it was hard for people to realize that during the time. So they often dislike him. He was the first president to suspend habeas corpus, but it was necessary for him to do so. If he hadn't done so, Taney would have gotten in his way and prevented him from accomplishing his goals. He used the suspension of habeas corpus to his full advantage and arrested a bunch of dangerous individuals,rebels, and confederate sympathizers. Lincoln also ended slavery with the emancipation proclamation and the 13th amendment.
ReplyDeleteI like how Chris mentions that "with great power comes great responsibility." Even though Lincoln didnt have the popular opinion, it was good that he stuck with what he believed was best. Because without his good judgment, things would have gone a lot differently, and maybe the north wouldn't have even won. For example, McClellan was a popular man, but he didn't do anything that could have ended the war many times. His hesitation would have made him a bad president. Lincoln had his goals set, and he accomplished what was best for the country.
ReplyDeleteI agree with David with that it is important to look at the before and after of Lincoln's presidencies. Before his term, the Union broke apart and the nation was struggling to survive. after, the union was restored with hope for the future. even after Lincoln's death, some people still believed that he made the wrong decisions. but as time went on even further, people would begin to see that what he did actually did benefit the nation. This is why many view Lincoln as a president who tried to make a more perfect nation rather than just restoring the union.
ReplyDeleteI like how Marco mentions that Lincoln could have just left the south alone, and let them become a separate country, but he didn't. He had courage to face the issues and he was smart in stating that a house divided can not stand. And it wasn't like Lincoln was a ruthless ruler either. Like a king or a despot. Lincoln let the south back in after the war, and made it clear that they were still countrymen. Taken from the quote box on the bottom of the page, "I have always found that mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice." - Lincoln. Lincoln was one of the greatest presidents, not only because he was smart, but because he had a firm hand and mercy as well.
ReplyDeleteLincoln shouldn't be undermined for his actions in the present day because he turned America into a very strong unit. Even though he is part of the reason for terror groups like the kkk, and for harsh racism that would last even until the present day, he should still be seen as a great president. Lincoln's risky actions overall made the union a lot more secure. even after his death, his policies helped america stand strong. racism and the terror groups were just factions that the government had to deal with at the time after his death. but americas situation overall after lincolns death was a lot better than what it was when lincoln started his first term.
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